Touhou Patch Center:常见问题

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Revision as of 06:08, 7 December 2019 by Yanstime (talk | contribs) (Created page with "我们也会感谢为翻译做出贡献的人们。如果这些人员名单没有包含在文件里,或者难以寻找,请在邮件中一并附上。")
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如果这里没有我想问的问题我该找谁?

只需要在这里加个新子标题写上你的问题就行了,很快你就能看到答复。

如果你想要更快的答复的话,建议访问我们的IRC聊天频道或者Discord服务器,链接就在左侧边栏。

无需害羞,万一有人和你有相同的提问呢。

Site politics

Regarding touhouwiki.net

Why couldn't this project just be done on touhouwiki.net?

When we started out this project, the main reason for having a separate page was a personal history of drama between members of our and their administrations. This is now no longer true as these tensions have largely been resolved.

However, there are still three main reasons why this would have been a bad idea from the start.

They emphasize form over function
Both the administrators and the editor base have largely been opposed of or simply don't care about the idea of an easily parseable wiki. Writing a good-looking, consistent MediaWiki is quite a laborious task on its own. And to be honest, trying to make a wiki that was only ever intended for on-screen reading parseable feels quite a bit counter-intuitive.
Our site has to be functional, first, and foremost. We need the pages to be in a special format in order to be able to automatically parse them.
Doing this on touhouwiki.net would mean that we have to force this format upon the editor base. Not only do we expect to deal with a lot of opposition here, editing these existing pages also takes way longer than just creating them from scratch.
The wiki family concept
When touhouwiki.net moved from Wikia at the end of 2010, it was decided to include all its existing translations to build a new family of multilingual Touhou wikis hosted on one server. Technically, these wikis are not connected with each other, save for the shared image repository. While giving full autonomy to the individual language communities may be a good thing, it only creates a lot of unnecessary work in our case:
For each language we wanted to support, we would have to open an entire new wiki. Besides the preparation work needed on the server backend, this also involves a lot of duplication of content. We would need a new main page, copy-paste the entire template infrastructure used, hardcode the translations of these pages into the wiki code, and synchronize changes or updates of the translatable content across every one of these wikis.
At our site, creating a translation into a new language is as simple as selecting the language from a drop-down menu. Creating the remaining portals and integration into the automatic updater is a matter of a few minutes.
Endings
Seeing themselves as a derivative Touhou work, they feel bound by ZUN's terms of use. Thus, they do not want to post endings, but we would like to. For some, posting them in user space with spoiler toggles may be considered as less of an offense, but there is no reason for us to put up with such childish pretenses.

Even if we did manage to sit down, discuss, and somehow sort out all of these issues, the time spent on achieving this is wasted - there is zero benefit for anyone involved. The fragmentation of content (which, by the way, could be easily mitigated by merely linking here) and need for different user accounts hardly justifies this work.

But they still have the most up-to-date English translations, haven't they?

For the older Windows games, this is probably true, since their English translations for these currently receive more attention than ours. As of Icon th14.png Double Dealing Character though, this has largely become a matter of personal taste.

Since their content is licensed under Creative Commons, we can freely use their existing translations for our cause. This means that we'll be gradually copy-pasting these to our page as long as we don't have our own translation for a certain source. Of course, we give full credit to the original authors whenever we are doing this.

And what's so special about your format?

In plain terms, this means the following:

  • In-game dialog tables require a |code= parameter containing the entry and time parameters from the .msg file. Each template call must correspond to one dialog box in-game and contain a maximum of 2 lines of dialog.
  • Spell card templates need to contain the number of the card.

What about endings?

We are going to post the ending text and graphics.
Clearly visible and translatable just like the rest of the content.
Regardless of what any interpretation of ZUN's guidelines might say about this subject.
If (and only if) ZUN were to complain about this personally, we will look for ways around it.

This is a site policy and not up for discussion, as it is one of the key reasons why we need a separate site, run by a separate staff, for this project.

In our opinion, this was the main issue why such a project was never considered. It certainly was a major factor in establishing "the English wiki" and "the English patch group" as separate entities, a distinction we aim to eradicate.

Quite a number of people have misunderstood this move as a deliberate attempt to get ZUN's attention. Of course, we could now start arguing and choose some nice words to paint ourselves in a better light. But ultimately, this changes nothing about the facts. Treating the endings just like any other modifiable part of the game is just the most natural thing for us to do. Unless we receive any kind of official cease-and-desist notice, we will continue to do so.

Do you really let everyone translate?

If you are mainly afraid of spammers, you'll find more information on that topic on our security page.

Yes, we do - and if you haven't realized yet, so does every other Touhou wiki, because that's how wikis work. The only difference here is that our contributors have a direct influence over the game data seen by thousands of fans - which is something every single editor certainly has dreamed of.

Therefore, if you want any control over your translations, Touhou Patch Center is the wrong place to put them. Instead, you should build your own patch server.

Translation practices

How are translation disputes handled?

The site administration only provides the engine and the hosting, and has no preference for certain ways of translating certain things. We may have an opinion on these too, though, but this will not be worth more than the opinion of every single translator.

Please use the portal pages to discuss whatever problems may arise and to reach compromises. In case an amicable solution really is impossible or counter-productive, we can always create separate language codes for different translation possibilities (e.g. "literal" and "idiomatic" translations), which can then coexist.

Is it acceptable to translate from Japanese to English and then finally to German (or any other language)?

The same answer also applies to this question. The translations are fully controlled by the translators themselves.

With the large number of languages we have, it is simply impossible for the site administration to do any kind of quality control. Thus, we wouldn't even notice which version your translation is based on, most of the time.

If you do translate from another translation (most likely English), be sure to add the wiki pages of this translation to your watchlist by clicking the star next to the search bar on the top. This will send you a e-mail notification whenever something has been changed and needs to be reflected in your language.

Do I need to translate everything? Spell card names / music titles / character titles would sound stupid in my language.

Generally, you should translate everything that can be translated and that would appear clearly visible in the game itself. After all, someone else who speaks the same language, is not connected to you or your translation group, or does not share your views on stupid sounding translations may come in at any time and translate these elements you left out. Of course, if everyone thinks a translation would sound stupid, no translation will ever be entered in the first place. As with this whole project, nobody forces you to do things you don't like to do.

If you prefer certain elements to stay in a different language, you can always use patch stacking and blacklist the respective files using the ignore parameter in your run configuration. This will be made user-friendlier once we have a graphical configuration tool.

In case you do decide to leave out certain things though, please really leave the boxes blank and don't copy-paste the English text in there.

The language I want to translate in doesn't have a code yet.

Simply leave a message on the main talk page, and translation will be set up shortly.

Some spell cards and music titles are already partly in English in the Japanese version. Do I translate these parts too?

Every single row in the translation table is one self-contained translation unit. These are already split into the smallest sensible parts. Using even smaller parts (like a "Japanese" and "English" part) would significantly increase the complexity of the patcher - it would then have to somehow piece these smaller parts back together to form one complete translation unit.

Thus, it is up to every language to decide between either keeping (and copying) these English parts or translating them too.

补丁引擎

Can I use MediaWiki markup in the translation boxes?

Some of it:

  • Any wiki links are filtered out and rendered as expected.
  • Bold and italic text (as well as both at the same time) is displayed as such inside the games themselves.
  • Custom ruby markup (like this) works for in-game dialog in every game starting from Icon th11.png Subterranean Animism. Previously, we even "supported" games prior to that, but deprecated this support as the results weren't really legible in the lower resolution of the older games (see bug #47). That said, Ruby annotations are not really meant for Latin scripts anyway, and should thus be used sparingly with those. Rewriting the translation to somehow reflect the annotated information would be preferable in any case.
    • If the original Japanese text uses Ruby to put dots over (like this:) words (・・・・・・) for emphasis, italics (written using ''this syntax'') would be a better-looking alternative for languages using Latin script.
  • If you absolutely have to pad a text with spaces at the beginning or the end, you can use  . This is necessary for certain hardcoded ASCII strings.
  • HTML tags are generally not supported.

我需要一直联网来使用补丁吗?

当然不用。游戏启动时需要的补丁文件其实都已经下载并保存到本地了。
如果没有网络连接,thcrap会直接启用本地最新的补丁文件。

一些非拉丁文本(例如西里尔文、朝鲜文、阿拉伯文、印度文)会出问题吗?

The Double Spoiler music room, displaying one test string comprised of multiple scripts.

自从我们完全支持UTF-8编码后并不会了。我们非常感谢翻译为这些语言的人,它们展示了这些语言的翻译是可行的。

然而像从右到左阅读顺序等特殊显示方式是还未实现的,我们会在需求提出后着手解决。

我知道的一个ZUN制游戏的补丁还没安排到这里,你们会引入吗?

当然可以!我们非常乐于引入已有的补丁。将链接发送至 submissions@thpatch.net ,我们会看看的。

我们也会感谢为翻译做出贡献的人们。如果这些人员名单没有包含在文件里,或者难以寻找,请在邮件中一并附上。

你们的补丁在Linux或MacOS X上用Wine能用吗?

总的来说是没问题的。

Do you need any particular fonts for the text to look right? Can you change the default font?

Nmlgc's script_latin patch includes fonts with sufficient Unicode coverage of both Latin and Cyrillic scripts, and also bundles the necessary font files. All of our translation patches for languages in these scripts include script_latin among their dependencies.

Patches for other languages written with scripts not covered by these fonts (e.g. Chinese) don't include script_latin, and instead specify a font bundled with Windows suited for displaying that language (MingLiU for Traditional, SimHei for Simplified Chinese) instead.

Lastly, users can always override any default font setting by specifying a font parameter in the run configuration file created by thcrap_configure.

In case a game uses two or more separate fonts, every replacement font from the second one on is set via hardcoded string translation. Currently, it is not possible to override these.

Is your patch compatible with the demo/trial versions of the Touhou games?

thcrap fully supports all trial versions that were released during the time where it was in active development - that is, all Team Shanghai Alice games released since Icon th14.png Double Dealing Character. Support for the trial versions of older games is still missing, though, as it just hasn't been a priority yet. While the configuration tool detects them, the basic technical support is still missing.

你们会翻译……

Manual(说明书)和omake(设定文档)吗?

从2016-12-22版本开始的话,是的。未来GUI将能够显示补丁包自己的附加资料,所以包括原版HTML网页版说明书和纯文本文档也将是可能的。
通过GUI甚至能够对它们应用补丁组,就像其它游戏数据一样。

custom.exe?

Yes. Since we patch the resolution dialogs that recent games show on startup, there really is no reason to leave out custom.exe, as it is technically a Windows dialog as well.

黄昏酒场吗?

当然。鉴于它实际上基于风神录引擎,我们依旧把它算作东方系列之一,自然也就支持。

格斗作吗?

深秘录(Icon th145.png Urban Legend in Limbo)已完全支持。
对绯想天(Icon th105.png Scarlet Weather Rhapsody)、非想天则(Icon th123.png Touhou Hisoutensoku)、 心绮楼(Icon th135.png Hopeless Masquerade)和凭依华(Icon th155.png Antinomy of Common Flowers)的适配依旧进行中。
而最后一个没有被适配的格斗作是萃梦想(Icon th075.png Immaterial and Missing Power),我们将最终完成对它的支持。
译者注:截至现在简中仅适配凭依华。

Seihou?

We'd love to tackle Shuusou Gyoku and Kioh Gyoku, even more so than the fighting games. Popular opinion, however, will probably think the other way round.

Banshiryuu, on the other hand, is such a trainwreck that we rank it on the same level as a generic and unimportant fan game.

旧作吗?

我们十分支持xJeePx在旧五作英文化的努力。
然而,对旧作的多语言翻译是困难的。而终极的ReC98 项目计划计划把旧作迁移至现代系统平台,
在完成对游戏源代码的重建工作后,将进行对多语言翻译的支持。

Fan games?

Generally, we don't want to deal with any hacking work on those on our own. However, we would definitely be open to provide hosting for any patch that wants to use either

  • this website for storing and serving translations (it will be treated like any other game already translatable on this site)
  • our engine for data injection into the game (in this case, we merely host the patch archive or installer)
  • or both.

The translation group for the respective game still remains responsible to supply the necessary code injection points, assembly hacks, and data conversion scripts.

My own fan game?

No problem. This wiki provides text translations in both the JSON format used in our existing patches (example), or in gettext .po format (example, right-click to save with the correct file name). You can then use this data in any way you wish, either as a part of your asset pipeline, or by automatically downloading these client-side, as in thcrap.

Please contact us on discord.png Discord or facebook.png Facebook to organize the process.

However, please keep the following in mind:

  • Both your original text and the translations will have to be licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International, and will be freely readable on this webpage.
  • While our site can provide translations for images, please try to keep the amount of those at a minimum, as image translation is typically rather time-consuming.

Fan games with ZUN's involvement? E.g. Torte le Magic, Magus in Mystic Geometries? Or are they treated the same as 'fan games' above?

The deciding factor is the engine used by the game, not which people were involved in its creation. We are very reluctant to develop automatic patching for an engine that will probably never be used for a different game ever again.

That said, ...

其它同人游戏吗?特别是视觉小说?

是,基本的引擎是通用的,可以少费功夫支持更多的游戏,尤其是像视觉小说这样的包含大量文本的游戏,将从即时、持续的更新中受益颇多。

谁知道呢,或许这个翻译计划某天甚至可能变成“通用日语游戏补丁中心”。但是让我们先把重心放到东方上,好吗?